Mirror axis drawing, or multi-vector simultaneous drawing

[xts44]

I've been thinking about "mirror" axis drawing, and the possibilities for multiple-axis mirrored drawing using arbitrary points. To see what I mean use the "symmetry" brush in sumopaint below. What I'm thinking about is more detailed (see tinyurl links at the bottom).

http://www.sumo.fi/products/sumopaint/index.php?id=0

I've had lots of ideas for art tools and speeding up certain tasks while also creating new avenues for creativity.

So I thought I'd ask: If I were to create such tools, which target platforms should I go for and also is what I'm getting at redundant/or already have been done, etc?

Below are links to more in depth detail of the ideas I've sent off to programmers for input in SWF format in help explaining the concepts to them for implementation, but someone pointed me in your direction so I thought since it's in development I'd fire off my ideas. I was thinking about paying someone to develop program independent tools for multi-vectored drawing.

First
http://tinyurl.com/6j9z5k

Second one
http://tinyurl.com/56sh7e

[Karl DD]

Thanks for the post.

I haven't seen SumoPaint, its pretty crazy!

We did have a bunch more ideas initially for the Mirror Module. Namely multiple axis' of reflection. But I didn't have much luck getting them working in code. I'll take a look at the videos and get back to you.

[xts44]

Thanks for the post.

I haven't seen SumoPaint, its pretty crazy!

We did have a bunch more ideas initially for the Mirror Module. Namely multiple axis' of reflection. But I didn't have much luck getting them working in code. I'll take a look at the videos and get back to you.

I was thinking you could treat each point as if it is on its own virtual canvas, with it's own vector/co-ordinate space, but each co-ordinate space/canvas is rotated, i.e. using layers.

The end result would definitely be worth it, it's like having many extra sets of hands, plus the need for symmetry in many types of art is absolutely critical but most artists and human beings cannot draw exactly due the complexity and precision motor control that is necessary. We can start building tools that do what we are not good at. This is exactly why I love programs like 3DS max where you can "mould" the mesh and pull and push the vertices of an object until you get it right. Since sculpting is way more natural then drawing many lines and points one by one, layer by layer, etc.

It would probably be a good thing to look for insight from better programmers, thats what I did! I know I found some really cool people on odesk.com, when dealing with these kinds of issues it best to go to the masters of 2D/3D graphics programming, people who have strong foundations in that kind of math. How many people are working on this project, are there any sponsors, etc? We could all pitch in and hire some hired help. The more people that pitch in the less it costs us all individually, and we solve problems and add functionality at the same time.

[Karl DD]

Hey,

I took a look at the videos, and understand the idea.
I would be interested to see/hear of examples where this would be useful?
Something like drawing the spikes along the back of a dinosaur comes to mind?
Definitely post any images if you have them.

Alchemy doesn't really cater for manipulating shapes after the fact: No Selection/No Undo etc...
So something like altering the reflection path could be problematic.
On the other hand, setting up an 'environment' with multiple reflection points could be interesting - 'repeat points' could be a better word, because its not true reflection if the shape doesn't distort to the contours of the reflection surface - its more like a repeat, flip, & rotate.
But like I said, it would be good to see some examples.

How many people are working on this project, are there any sponsors, etc?

There is me and Jacob, so the project is very much in it's infancy. The initial 7 months or so of work were funded by the a government research grant here in Tokyo. So that got the project off the ground, and we would definitely be interested in looking for more funding via such organisations rather than asking users to shell out. We are much more interested in having people (like you!) share their ideas and contribute in that way.

Karl

[xts44]

Hey,

I took a look at the videos, and understand the idea.
I would be interested to see/hear of examples where this would be useful?

Artists would immediately find it useful, think of any orthographic perspective where you need perfect symmetry or need to align lines according to a vanishing point, etc, etc. There are TONNES of ways it can be used, I'm guessing your not an artist? lol.

Alchemy doesn't really cater for manipulating shapes after the fact: No Selection/No Undo etc...

This is why there is a need for vector shapes/lines, check out Xara 3D, http://www.xara.com/us/downloads/xtreme/
and play around with the vector shapes and lines.

The idea is to have the widgets use manipulatable vectors for the widget, i.e. drawing a line and then adjusting the way the axis of reflection points(mirrors/copies/repeats)

On the other hand, setting up an 'environment' with multiple reflection points could be interesting - 'repeat points' could be a better word,

Not really, since copying/mirroring are the same thing, this is why raid 1 (?) is called "mirroring". And why you "image" or "mirror" you drive, they all derive from the same root concept -> copy-> reflect->mirror->repeat, have you ever stood between two mirrors and noticed the infinite reflections/copies/repetitions of yourself? It's all the same thing.

Because its not true reflection if the shape doesn't distort to the contours of the reflection surface - its more like a repeat, flip, & rotate.

These are just different ways of saying the same thng, think of liquid lenses they use in telescopes, etc, or lenses they use in different optical devices, they mirror, repeat, etc, they do a whole lot of functions.

But like I said, it would be good to see some examples.

Artists would easily come up with examples, consider drawing a face from the front perspective and you want the symmetry to be perfect, instead of having to copy + flip + rotate, you can simply use a mirror+copy brush -> whatever is done to one side of the axis is done to the
other. There is a reason I call it mirror/reflecting, go get a couple small mirrors and play around with the neat things you can do when you surround a single small object with them, or stand between them at different angles.

How many people are working on this project, are there any sponsors, etc?

There is me and Jacob, so the project is very much in it's infancy. The initial 7 months or so of work were funded by the a government research grant here in Tokyo. So that got the project off the ground, and we would definitely be interested in looking for more funding via such organisations rather than asking users to shell out. We are much more interested in having people (like you!) share their ideas and contribute in that way.

Karl

Cool stuff, your project needs some advertising/word of mouth, I think we should take some of the best experimental art and submit it to digg other social sites, to raise awareness among everybody, then other people interested can drop by, join up, give feedback, etc.

[Karl DD]

Artists would easily come up with examples, consider drawing a face from the front perspective and you want the symmetry to be perfect, instead of having to copy + flip + rotate, you can simply use a mirror+copy brush -> whatever is done to one side of the axis is done to the
other. There is a reason I call it mirror/reflecting, go get a couple small mirrors and play around with the neat things you can do when you surround a single small object with them, or stand between them at different angles.

Have you actually used Alchemy?
The mirror module does just this does it not?

[xts44]

Artists would easily come up with examples, consider drawing a face from the front perspective and you want the symmetry to be perfect, instead of having to copy + flip + rotate, you can simply use a mirror+copy brush -> whatever is done to one side of the axis is done to the
other. There is a reason I call it mirror/reflecting, go get a couple small mirrors and play around with the neat things you can do when you surround a single small object with them, or stand between them at different angles.

Have you actually used Alchemy?
The mirror module does just this does it not?

No because the point is to use mirroring in new ways - expand on the idea other then merely copying linearily across a single axis, with a single brush (or "two" brushes, one and one virtual), the point is to get the idea of "many hands" and many vectors/brushes painting at the same time but being able to control what each brush does by applying functions to it's vector space.

This may be a little advanced, but 3ds max 9 if you do a simple animation and play with the animation curve you can control the flow of the interpolated animation, i.e. bursting quickly between 0-10 frames, etc, etc. Something like that is needed for art when doing drawing with a brush, for every x amount of movement of the first brush you can apply functions on the instanced brushes, so it goes beyond merely repetition, you can add repetition + variation in the chosen the child/instanced brushes when going going multibrush.

The point is to give artists new tools as well as speed up productivity, I went and pinged my idea off an artists forum and they loved the idea. Plus I'm also a bit of an artist (though not full time, 'amateur') but I can upload some of my older works to a space if you want to check them out.

[Karl DD]

Yeah definitely post your works, anything to show the type of stuff that could be easily created with your idea.
I am quite interested to mock something up in Alchemy, but at the moment I have quite a bit on my stack so it won't be anytime soon.