User feedback

[pior]

Hi all,

I have recently been pointed to the Alchemy alpha by J. Hina. I loved Symskribbl and I am very eager to contribute to the developpement of Alchemy. I have been going back to traditional medias recently to get more of the 'happy accident' factor that you guys seems to be aiming at. I also like to use hardly predictable custom brushes in Photoshop hence Alchemy shows great potential to me.

Below is a report focused on the 2d artists perpective. I also included UI suggestions, I hope this is the right place to post this.

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Setup :

WinXP Home 2002 SP2
AMD Athlon64 3500+
2.21GHz
3GB RAM
nvidia 7600 GT


-I love the default tools, especially the fat shape mode. I think it shows a great balance between randomness and control - this is exactly what I am looking for when concepting.

-I couldn't get session recording to work. 'toggle recording' is ticked as well as 'record on startup' but when I try to save using 'save page' nothing happens and I get an error. I tried to 'set session directory to MyDocuments ; once done I did not get the error message anymore, but couldn't save either, had to use printscreen. Also, 'toggle recording' is confusing - since there is a tickbox, it should just be called 'recording'.

-Options relying on a tickbox should show an empty box when unticked - to differenciate them from non-tickbox menu items like 'save page'.



-the freeform/straight toggle is confusing. I think that's a problem for pretty much all toggles in the app : it is never really clear from looking at the menus only what states toggles are in. see examples in screenshots. Same goes with the black and white toggle : If I just laid down a stroke, I know which color I currently use hence know that I need to hit the B/W switch once. However if I need to make multiple change to my stroke type, ex going for fat line+white+straight it gets quite frustrating. I can understand that this might be on purpose to create accidents but I think it needs that fine balance between randomness (induced by the tool) and control(UI). Also, even if I see that freeform mode shows a little curled stroke, and that straight mode shows a broken line, it doesn't make sense to leave the two words 'freeform' ad 'straight' associated to that icon. Plus there seems to be a problem with the icon on display - atm when I am in straight mode, it shows the curved icon, and vice-versa. I think it is more simple to have the UI show the current state.





-I like how expanding the window actually expands the canvas. I would recommend to have spacebar set as 'pan canvas' since this is the behaviour that every concept artist is used to. Having the panning to create space to draw on would be extremely handy. Ex if I have a figure in the top-left corner, I would love to be able to just pan out to get more available space.

-switch vector/switch bitmap - I guess this converts back and forth from a raster drawing to a vector drawing? Same problem as before, the toggle is unclear since there is no way to know which mode the drawing is currently in. Also this toggle is separated in two menu lines as oppsed to all the other switches in the program which work by tickboxes.

-the 'create' menu should be called 'creation' (since hitting the options in that menu doesn't create chapes, it simply changes the creation mode).

-'Invert shapes' should be called 'invert click behaviour' (since it does not invert shapes but just changes the input mode).

-The program is slower as the drawing goes further. I would appreciate a 'dump memory' button if the slowdown cannot be solved.

-In 'type shapes', '>create' should be called 'generate shape' since this is just a temporary action. '+Add' should be called something like 'draw shape on canvas'. The input could also be made mush simplier. Since the freehand mode is based on cursor input, I think typeshape would benefit from being similar. Ex when Type Shape is enabled, the user input could be a click somewhere on the canvas. then the program shows a small popup like 'draw generated shape on canvas? yes/no'. This way menu access is only needed for the distorsion slider.

-The 'create' and 'affect' menus being up and down arrows is confusing.

-when I call the create of affect menus, the first line gets an highlight even if I don't have the pointer over it. It is confusing since it makes it look like it is the currently selected option.

-I understand that the hidden menus are nice but I would like to have a little visual indication of where to put my cursor in order to bring up the menu. ATM it gives a weird, Zbrush 'seems like the application is about to snap' feel, it's a bit hard to explain. It might be related to the fact that I use a tablet and not a mouse to access the hidden menu. I wouldn't mind having rightclick seet to popup the menu no matter the cursor position, or a keyboard hotkey. An exemple of frustrating behaviour : I go the create menu, select 'Median shapes', then want to switch to white : the menu disappears inbetween.

-I love the Mirror mode. I would like to have another mirror more that set the mirror axis when the stroke starts. And another one where the mirror axis is drawn by the user once the stroke is finished - on clickdown would create radial symetry, two clicks would create a mirror line. Also the stnadard mirror mode should recenter the mirror axis each time the canvas get resized.

-On a general note, I think that the 'affect' and 'create' tools could all be stored in a single menu - I don't see the need to make any distinction.

-Last but not least : I would appreciate a 'randomize nodes' tool, to get some VERY unexpected results! It would be nice to have this behaves as a temporary switch, to allow the user to go back to the brush style that was previously setup manually.

Hope this helps! Don't have a microphone hence couldn't try the mic mode, sadly!

[kite]

Cool work guys, Jacob hooked me up with a link to the program, it's a very interesting idea.
Still exploring but here's some feedback -

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vanishing ui
I also found the vanishing ui a bit of an impediment when working, as Pior mentions it has a similar quirky feel to zbrush. Functionality that you'll be accessing quite a lot is hidden by default, and the core modules are accessible only through several mouseclicks.

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black/white switch
i can't tell which is the dominant colour when i switch them, a cosmetic rethink for the icon states would be good.

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using inverse shapes with the thick style it becomes quite easy to cover the canvas in unwanted drawing when going up to the menu. a quick way of toggling modules on and off would be handy.

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ctrl+n doesn't seem to work

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some of the icon descriptions aren't really necessary as the functionality is self explanatory. eg black and white

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standardised shortcuts for altering brush size and opacity would be good.
i tend to use photoshops [ ] for brush size and 1-10 for opacity

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feature suggestions

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modules
This suggestion is a bit of a crib from my current zbrush UI but I thought breaking the modules out of two menus and instead having a sort of generic 'inventory bar' for modules with a common dropdown menu would be good. Generic function key shortcuts for each space in the bar would make it simple to quickly toggle between module effects.

alchemy.gif (15.22 KB) Viewed 707 times

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median
median generates interesting effects! it'd be cool to expand this module with more options to make the median stroke that little bit different from the original (ie. drawing on an angled perspective plane, offsetting median randomly, drawing at random sizes or with different stroke sizes/opacity.

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Mirror
with mirror and random on together it'd be nice to see the random effect duplicated on the other side, either as perfect symmetry or an application of the random effect on the other side

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cut and paste
the ability to just cut from alchemy and paste into another program would be great rather than going through export

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mic/wave/cd shapes
it'd be cool if you could choose different inputs instead of just mic. ie alter line size with whatever sound your computer is playing at the time of drawing whether that be mp3, video etc.

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type shapes
type shapes initially threw me as the menu vanished when selected. It'd be cool to see this feature tied to the stylus and keyboard somehow

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permanent ui
i think breaking some core functions off into a toolbar or some sort of visible ui would make things much friendlier and more fluid

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an option to use standard pen pressure would be good

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it'd be nice to be able to paint with the fat style and geometric shapes

cool stuff!

[Karl DD]

Firstly guys, thanks for the feedback - I really appreciate it as this project is really meant to be a community thing.
I have just got back from doing a workshop in Dublin using Alchemy and noted many of the interface quirks you mentioned first hand. Unfortunately I don't know the Z-Brush interface so well, although I am familiar with the tacks Jacob spits about it...

I am just going to go through your comments one by one:

Session Recording
I completely agree that this needs to be changed to become more usable. Basically you need to first set the directory (default is the users home dir) and explicitly toggle recording on, save pages either manually or automatically, then explicitly turn recording off to close the PDF file. If you try to open the PDF file before it is closed it will not display. Perhaps the best way to manage this would be to have a more obvious set of icons in green/red colours, as it is easy to forget to close the pdf file out.

Toggle Buttons and their naming
I agree this is super confusing - I don't know what is turned on or off half the time.
I think this needs to be addressed soon.
Something like these icons sets would probably work well

Picture 1.png (5.17 KB) Viewed 779 times

- if anyone is interested in making up some replacement icons the size is 24x24 for the main toolbar (eg Black/White) and 15 high x whatever wide for the sub toolbar (eg Freeform/Straight shapes), and saved with alpha channel as a PNG-24 from Photoshop save for web.
The menu items with the tick mark (eg Toogle Recording) are a little bit more difficult to change, as this is default Java/Swing behaviour and there is no simple way to specify an icon file as such. I will try and have a look into how to override this behaviour as it looks even nastier on a mac.

Switch Function
This is a feature which opens a vector or bitmap file in a chosen application. Basically you need to define an application to use first - eg photoshop for a bitmap and illustrator for a vector, then you can use the "Switch Vector" or "Switch Bitmap" to switch the current canvas to another application.
I will write up some simple documentation to explain this sort of thing, as it can be confusing first time round. The fact that the menu items don't have a blank box when it is a toggle item also is a problem.

Create / Affect
Jacob and I spent a while discussing this and the difference is fundamental but at the same time thin at time.
Basically a 'Create' module creates raw shapes and the 'Affect' modules affects existing shapes akin to an environment - think gravity on the moon vs earth.
The icons I agree could do with some work - again it would be cool to see any suggestions for new ones.

Disappearing Toolbar
The idea with this was to keep everything out of the way so you are looking at a blank canvas when you draw. As Alchemy is about the process I think this is quite an important thing. It could definitely do with some fine tuning. I have made a version which is detachable but there were some bugs with it disappearing entirely so it didn't make the first release. As for it disappearing when you change to Median Shapes - yeah I can fix that up I think. I like the idea of showing the menu on a hotkey - any ideas what key? Space?

Type Shapes
Good ideas here - we already discussed the possibility of using keyboard input to make shapes, kinda like when the cat jumps on the keyboard and writes a weird word by accident
I originally had this module drawing shapes with the pen clicks as per normal but removed it, so I think it would be good to make use of this pen function - maybe in combination with the keyboard input. Moving the pen round and dropping random key shapes?

Randomise module
Yeah, maybe this could be added to the Randomise affect as a global push the button and it messes everything up.

Mic/wave/cd shapes
Yes Jacob already mentions this but I haven't looked into how hard this would be to implement. To get the current audio playing in another application would be difficult I think but to select a song, then play it from Alchemy would be easier.
I think it is a good idea to use more of this environmental stuff, sounds, music, web camera, even the time... as a means to throw people.

Shortcuts
The goal will be to have all of these shortcuts customisable, because of different folks/different strokes and all that.
Especially for the modules something like F1, F2, etc... would be good

Cut & Paste
This is a good idea! I will look into how to implement it.

Median Shapes
This is definitely a work in process and I like the sound of your ideas a lot. I would like to be able to do something like you mentioned by perhaps combining it with the repeat and random modules to draw, change, repeat over and over again.


Anyway, thanks again for the feedback and keep it coming
I will get to work on these changes....

[Astro1derboy]

This isn't a wish-list post. I simply wanted to say thank you for this most-excellent program. This is really freeing up my mind from the outset. I love it. It's quite awesome to just go crazy and see the ideas start popping out. I've not had a chance to run this on my home computer (with Intuos3) yet...but can only imagine that will bring a whole new element into the mix. I'm certainly glad to have been steered this direction. I love what you are all doing with this tool. Thanks.