Undo?

[Zirngibism]

Hi,

Just started playing with Alchemy a bit ago, and what an inspirational (and very useful) toy it is!

This might have been discussed before, and perhaps it already exists, but what about an "undo" option?

While I understand that putting what's in your head exactly to the screen isn't the nature or purpose of Alchemy, trying to make any representative drawing so far has been a bit frustrating without it.

[Karl DD]

Hey,

Thanks for the post, I am surprised this doesn't come up more.
I have just finished up writing a research paper about Alchemy and in it Undo is discussed:

To promote the visual exploration process with Alchemy, certain features were intentionally omitted. According to Boden (1990), the introduction of constraints on the creative process is what makes creativity possible by mapping out a territory of structural possibilities to be explored. The most immediately noticeable constraint within Alchemy is the lack of an undo function. Undo is one of the most ubiquitous features of desktop software, but one we felt lends itself to refinement and development, rather than the raw early stage creation we sought to encourage. The lack of undo had an immediate effect on the creative process, with one Alchemy user commenting: ‘It allows me to be more creative by encouraging a faster workflow where I’m not second guessing myself or the concept, helping me to move forward and try new things rather than trying to refine weak designs’ .

Please excuse the academic format of writing...
In short the omission of Undo was intentional and there are no immediate plans to implement it. Although nothing is set in stone and we really do welcome all feedback.

My collaborator sums it up quite well when he says: 'Alchemy is software that supports the tools of ideas, rather than the tools of production'. So Alchemy is not for 'production' so much as it is for idea generation. I think it is useful to think of Alchemy as more like a toy to have fun with, experiment with, and generate ideas with - then by all means switch over to Photoshop or Painter when you need those production features.

Although there is no Undo available on pen & paper, I sometimes wish there was a real life undo or search function for every time I lose my keys or wallet!

Karl

[inverse catheter]

remember too that the way Alchemy is set up to record your process means that no work or shape should go lost. and at any time you may choose to load in your saved pdf to continue on from a point where you might have found something interesting happening. this is in no way intended to circumvent the lack of an undo feature but is there to promote the concept of building a massive library of more and more shapes. moving forward

[scorpio]

but we all know why do want it - cause the alchemy is capable of quickly creating good/nice to watch/interesting graphics(that could be transfered to other programs just as they are here, without any changes), too. Not only to give ideas. It would be more interesting to be able to continue working with a piucture after we screwed it up by some random click or, while trying to be "creative", when it didn't work out so well this time. I mean ones prefer the idea- making approach, the others are pretty satisfied with some graphics that can be made in this program alone. Are playing with what could be done here. And the undo option is one big leap over the fence that was build there for us to force us in the first one approach. Why? Choice ain't bad. If somebody thinks undo constrains his creativity - don't use it, but if somebody thinks lack of undo constraints his graphic-making possibilities using this software - then please give him (me in that matter as well), the choice. CHoice isn't a bad thing, guys.
Especially if the program is so amazing and attractive and it can be approached on more levels than "just" the idea-giver. Especially then, when something screws up your picture, it's at least bit of unpleasant not to have the "undo" option just cause somebody thinks it will be more creative for him not to have it at all. I mean if you think so - stop your self, and don't use it. BUt give others a choice. and by the way - alchemy rocks -

[mr. mo]

hmmm... thats an interesting thing. actually I really like that I have no chance to hit the Undo all the time, like I used to do that in Ps. but! sometimes when I came up with a really interesting shape / composition / character / dynamics and after that I accidentally create a weird shape / line / whatever what screws up my whole sketch - now that is a bit annoying.
so I completely agree with scorpio and I have to say there should be a chance to use the Undo option. I think the best would be to have an Undo, but with a very tight limit - lets say you can get back max three steps or so. that should be enough to correct your accidental mistakes, but alchemy could still stay as it is: a great place of exploration and creativity.

[lazor]

Well, I just started messing with Alchemy, but one of the first things I did was clicking through every menu thinking: 'where is the damn undo function'. Pressing CTRL-Z to get rid of something is more or less hardwired to my brain, after some years doing stuff creative stuff with computers. Especially when you're just starting out with an app, an undo function is a very comfortable thing, because you're very likely to make mistakes(as in: you misinterpret the GUI, and whatever you expected to get, comes out completely different), screwing up your first attempts at creating.

But I do think leaving out the undo function makes sense. When I am more comfortable with an app, I know what all the little bells and whistles do, and I know how they'll affect my work. Of course, I'm stilling going to make mistakes, but these 'mistakes' are mostly of a different nature. That is, these mistakes become mistakes after doing something to improve my work, seeing the result, thinking something like 'oh, well, this does not look as good as expected' or 'I wonder if this and that would look better'. And then, after quickly hitting CTRL-Z, what I did is gone, and I can try out something else.

So, the point is, I see myself often 'optimizing' my creations to reach some utopia of perfection that I am not going to reach anyways(most likely), instead of just 'creating'. I am only a hobbyist and not a professional, so I can't really comment from that perspective, but I have the feeling that the best artworks I create are not the ones I spent hours and hours perfecting them, but the ones that were created with some kind of 'flow' where I didn't get caught up in some undo-redo loop, or where I ended up trying getting some arcane app feature to work the I want it to work over and over again, or something else, made possible by the mighty undo button, that would interrupt that 'flow' of creating stuff.

Leaving out the undo is certainly unconventional, but I don't dislike it.

A compromise to leaving out the undo function completely could maybe be something which, instead of undoing the last step, would remember the state before the last change as some kind of a branching point in a tree. That is you won't get the effect of removing something of your work, so you could continue doing stuff until it is either completely messed up or in some state that didn't turn out as bad as you expected just a couple of minutes ago. And then you could go back to the branching point, and explore another branch of your creative process. Some way to see what your work might have turned out if you didn't have made that change your were skeptical of.

[Karl DD]

Lazor that is actually a really nice idea.
The metaphor of branching out to new points is very closely related to the sketching process I think.
The computer would be a great tool for archiving this process. We are trying to do that already with the Sessions feature but the ability to go back and forward in time would be very useful.

It reminds me of this diagram I saw in a book called 'Sketching User Experiences':

Overlapping-Funnels.gif (9.29 KB) Viewed 3319 times

I figure Alchemy is right at the start, in the elaboration phase. So branching out in many directions is the key.
Let me have a think about how we could implement that.... something like a little tree diagram where you can click on a branch and head back to that point?

Karl

[mr. mo]

hey lazor! this branching idea is really cool actually!
(as I am mainly a Ps guy it seems a bit similar for me like the History tool - I think the History tool is totally fucked btw, its just doesnt make sence for me hahah )

idea: what if you can use lets say a `time marker` for this. you can mark a certain workphase (with an extra button or shortcut) to save your initial idea - you can go back to this point and discover different alterations of the same sketch. after you finished one version, you can save or export that out. it seems a bit too complicated to do secondary `time marker` to continue the branch theory, because I think it could break your creative process.

[NDean]

A history tool seems like the best version of undo alchemy could implement. Basically at any point hit CTRL+Z (undo equivalent, CMD+Z for macs) and that records the screen like a screen capture saving it in a database of backlogged shapes... Im repeating what others said XD

Anyway, yes... that sounds perfect.

[mily066]

on the topic of the undo function. I know it is nice sometimes to be barred from being able to undo what you've done. However, from the short time I've been using Alchemy, I've found it really frustrating when I've had an image I liked and I've gone to add to it some more, but I've disliked the shape of the new stroke or on the random shape functions it's given me a huge abstract shape that covers the section I liked.
I think it would be nice to be able to step back at least one stage if you've done a stroke you really don't like.